Greggz 120G Planted Rainbow Tank
- Thread starter Greggz
- Start date
Not all Rainbows develop the hump back. Some species, like Boesemani, do not. They stay pretty much the same shape, even when old (I've had some go ten years). The ones in the photo are probably about 4 years old.
Now here are some Turquoise Rainbow, Lake Kutubu (Melanotaenia Lacustris). They do develop the hump over time. The first two pics are of one who is about nine years old, the second set of pictures is of a three year old. It takes years to get to full size. Rainbows in general keep growing and changing shape, but very, very slowly.
That's funny Burr. I wish I could get full tank shots like you.
But then again, you have a big advantage.......great subject matter!
Goyder River Rainbow (Melanotaenia Trifasciata)
Running Creek Rainbow (Melanotaenia Trifasciata)
Running Creek Rainbow (Melanotaenia Trifasciata)
Bleheri Rainbow (Chilatherina Bleheri)
This is also no mention of how many pics were the quick blur!
Seems like for every dozen one might get two good pics.
Seems like for every dozen one might get two good pics.
Years and years of training!!
But @Phishless has got it about right. Clean the glass, lights up high, room dark, no ambient lighting/reflections......and then take loads and loads of pictures. 1 out of 15 or so might be decent. So sort through and see what you got.
Sometimes there aren't any good ones, so back to the drawing board and try again. As always, helps to have good subject matter!
And as to feeding, it's a wide variety. New Life Spectrum pellets every day, and a little of something else every day too.
So I think I have found the upper limit of PO4 in my tank. Was dosing very large amounts for 3 months (4ppm x 4 week). Suddenly had some uncharacteristic stunting. L. Sp. Red got thin and weak, a few tops coming off. L. Rubin leaves kind of droopy, and tops looking a little stunted, and a few others just wonky in general. So I tested my water, and my P was through the roof.
The interesting thing is that the tank was doing better than ever with very high PO4 for months, but at some point it either became toxic, or was blocking the uptake of something else. By the way, no algae outbreaks even at that very high level.
Another interesting thing is that in talking with Burr, his tank is much more sensitive to high PO4 levels. He brought up something interesting about the absorption rate of ferts by plants at various pH levels.
His fully degassed pH is 7.75 and goes down to about 6.4 at peak. My degassed pH is 7.3 and goes down to 5.90 at peak drop. According to the chart below, the availability of PO4 is much less at 5.90 than 6.4 pH. Could that be a another factor to consider when dosing macros? Much like DTPA and micros? And is that why my tank seems to need so much more P? Who knows, maybe. Thought it was worth mulling over.
So I did 3 water changes in 5 days, and stunting stopped immediately. Now everything is bouncing back quite nicely. Going to PO4 2ppm x 4 per week, still pretty high, but not crazy high like before.
I was worried I was going to lose some Pantanal when they rebelled pretty hard. After the water changes they bounced back pretty nicely and are almost back to normal.
So now on to something else I have been thinking about lately.
Common wisdom has always been dose macros/micros alternating days. If you’ve been following the custom micro thread at all, you know that many of us have been dosing micros daily at pretty high levels. And in general I think the response has been positive. At minimum, daily micro dosing didn’t cause the sky to fall.
So what about macro dosing? Is there any benefit to following the common wisdom of every other day dosing? And is there an argument for front end dosing of macros? For instance, with my RO water, I dose CaSO4, MgSO4, and K2CO3 into my holding tanks right after a water change. So next water change it's already front end loaded with Ca, Mg, and K.
Why not do the same with NO3 and PO4?
So let's take a look at what I do right now with N. After a water change my N is about 20. Pretty consistently the same. So then I dose 8ppm N, bringing it up to 28ppm. Then every other day I dose some more N, bringing it to somewhere around 60ppm by the end of the week. That includes dosing and accumulation from fish waste.
So if you made a chart of my available macros, it would start at 20ppm, then slowly rise to about 60ppm throughout the week, then abruptly back down to 20.
My thought is why not just dose my holding tanks with macros up front? I dose 4 times per week, so I dose a total of 32ppm NO3. Let's say I just dosed that on water change day into my holding tanks. Total NO3 right after a water change would be about 50ppm, and with NO3 consumption and additional N from fish waste, end up at 60ppm by the end of the week. That graph would be almost a steady line.
Could that be a better way of dosing? Who knows? I am going to start by dosing 1/2 of my weekly macros right after water change on Saturday, then the other 1/2 on Tuesday. If that works out well, next step is to front load everything. I do know that several successful people that I know of throw in a large dose of macros right after a water change, so it’s kind of that same theory.
And in the interest of always including some pictures with a post, here is some Myrio Red Stem I picked up from Burr. I really like the color and texture, nice contrast to other plants in my tank. I hope it does well.
So here is my updated dosing (for now!).
And once again something caught my eye recently. My Kamaka Rainbows (Melanotaenia Kamaka) were going at it sparring and flashing. One interesting thing is that the stripe that Rainbows produce when sparring is a different color depending on the species. With the Kamaka, it’s bright white, which is pretty darn neat looking. I think it’s the only one that gets this color. Looks more neon white in person, but you can get the idea.
The interesting thing is that the tank was doing better than ever with very high PO4 for months, but at some point it either became toxic, or was blocking the uptake of something else. By the way, no algae outbreaks even at that very high level.
Another interesting thing is that in talking with Burr, his tank is much more sensitive to high PO4 levels. He brought up something interesting about the absorption rate of ferts by plants at various pH levels.
His fully degassed pH is 7.75 and goes down to about 6.4 at peak. My degassed pH is 7.3 and goes down to 5.90 at peak drop. According to the chart below, the availability of PO4 is much less at 5.90 than 6.4 pH. Could that be a another factor to consider when dosing macros? Much like DTPA and micros? And is that why my tank seems to need so much more P? Who knows, maybe. Thought it was worth mulling over.
So I did 3 water changes in 5 days, and stunting stopped immediately. Now everything is bouncing back quite nicely. Going to PO4 2ppm x 4 per week, still pretty high, but not crazy high like before.
I was worried I was going to lose some Pantanal when they rebelled pretty hard. After the water changes they bounced back pretty nicely and are almost back to normal.
So now on to something else I have been thinking about lately.
Common wisdom has always been dose macros/micros alternating days. If you’ve been following the custom micro thread at all, you know that many of us have been dosing micros daily at pretty high levels. And in general I think the response has been positive. At minimum, daily micro dosing didn’t cause the sky to fall.
So what about macro dosing? Is there any benefit to following the common wisdom of every other day dosing? And is there an argument for front end dosing of macros? For instance, with my RO water, I dose CaSO4, MgSO4, and K2CO3 into my holding tanks right after a water change. So next water change it's already front end loaded with Ca, Mg, and K.
Why not do the same with NO3 and PO4?
So let's take a look at what I do right now with N. After a water change my N is about 20. Pretty consistently the same. So then I dose 8ppm N, bringing it up to 28ppm. Then every other day I dose some more N, bringing it to somewhere around 60ppm by the end of the week. That includes dosing and accumulation from fish waste.
So if you made a chart of my available macros, it would start at 20ppm, then slowly rise to about 60ppm throughout the week, then abruptly back down to 20.
My thought is why not just dose my holding tanks with macros up front? I dose 4 times per week, so I dose a total of 32ppm NO3. Let's say I just dosed that on water change day into my holding tanks. Total NO3 right after a water change would be about 50ppm, and with NO3 consumption and additional N from fish waste, end up at 60ppm by the end of the week. That graph would be almost a steady line.
Could that be a better way of dosing? Who knows? I am going to start by dosing 1/2 of my weekly macros right after water change on Saturday, then the other 1/2 on Tuesday. If that works out well, next step is to front load everything. I do know that several successful people that I know of throw in a large dose of macros right after a water change, so it’s kind of that same theory.
And in the interest of always including some pictures with a post, here is some Myrio Red Stem I picked up from Burr. I really like the color and texture, nice contrast to other plants in my tank. I hope it does well.
So here is my updated dosing (for now!).
And once again something caught my eye recently. My Kamaka Rainbows (Melanotaenia Kamaka) were going at it sparring and flashing. One interesting thing is that the stripe that Rainbows produce when sparring is a different color depending on the species. With the Kamaka, it’s bright white, which is pretty darn neat looking. I think it’s the only one that gets this color. Looks more neon white in person, but you can get the idea.
That's pretty much what I've been doing with macros since about mid-summer last year. Nitrate and phosphate ions aren't really used by anything other than the plants. They won't decay over the course of a week or two, they're just there waiting to be consumed. So I include all of that stuff (K too) for the week in with my water change. I've measured through the week, the decrease of NO3 and PO4, if any is observable with lame consumer test kits, is minimal.
For micros, being more reactive, I dose them daily when the CO2 is high, pH is at its lowest, like others around here.
My only other wrinkle on this is that I've backed off on using nitrate beyond just a minimal base level, and am daily dosing urea (also when the pH is low) for nitrogen content. Seems to be working.
Thanks I appreciate that response.
My theory in general is that maybe it's better to have a more constant supply.
So you've been front end loading macros and the sky hasn't fallen. That's about what I suspected.
So I picked up a Seneye Reef Monitor, mainly for the PAR meter. I know this has limited interest for many, but to me getting the PAR right is one of the most important pieces of the planted tank puzzle. I see countless threads and debates on ferts, but many times it’s the light intensity that needs to be adjusted. Too much or too little can really affect your results.
And I know there are only a handful of us old schoolers still using T5HO, but for those that still do this might be interesting.
First I took the readings from seven different bulbs. The readings were all taken directly under the light, about 2” below the surface, and about 10” total from the light. All T5HO with individual good quality reflectors.
The interesting thing is how much they vary. No question the Giesemann’s were the clear winner. Really shows that depending on the bulbs, your PAR value could be much different than you think.
So here you go.
Next I took readings with four bulbs (1,2,5,6, Below) and with all six bulbs running. I took the surface reading from center of tank about 2” below the water line, and the other from the front substrate. The 4 bulb reading is shows a big drop at the surface, but keep in mind with my set up, with 4 bulbs running there were not any bulbs right above the meter.
And I took the substrate reading from the front substrate (not center), as I didn’t feel like moving the drift wood from the center of the tank. I'm sure from the center it's even a bit higher.
For reference, this is my current light set up.
Top to bottom (front to back in tank)
1. Truelumen Flora 54w
2. Truelumen Flora 54w
3. ATI Purple Plus 54w
4. Powerveg 660 54w
5. Giesemann Tropic 80w
6. Giesemann Super Flora 80w
And here are the readings. So as you can see, the PAR with all bulbs running is not that much more than just 4 at the front substrate. Based on this I am going to run all 6 bulbs for 8 all hours for a few weeks and see if I notice any changes.
And I can see now where I could change my bulb combinations, and get to a lot of different PAR values if I wanted to. So could be some more experiments to come.
And why not, a full tank shot......
And I know there are only a handful of us old schoolers still using T5HO, but for those that still do this might be interesting.
First I took the readings from seven different bulbs. The readings were all taken directly under the light, about 2” below the surface, and about 10” total from the light. All T5HO with individual good quality reflectors.
The interesting thing is how much they vary. No question the Giesemann’s were the clear winner. Really shows that depending on the bulbs, your PAR value could be much different than you think.
So here you go.
Next I took readings with four bulbs (1,2,5,6, Below) and with all six bulbs running. I took the surface reading from center of tank about 2” below the water line, and the other from the front substrate. The 4 bulb reading is shows a big drop at the surface, but keep in mind with my set up, with 4 bulbs running there were not any bulbs right above the meter.
And I took the substrate reading from the front substrate (not center), as I didn’t feel like moving the drift wood from the center of the tank. I'm sure from the center it's even a bit higher.
For reference, this is my current light set up.
Top to bottom (front to back in tank)
1. Truelumen Flora 54w
2. Truelumen Flora 54w
3. ATI Purple Plus 54w
4. Powerveg 660 54w
5. Giesemann Tropic 80w
6. Giesemann Super Flora 80w
And here are the readings. So as you can see, the PAR with all bulbs running is not that much more than just 4 at the front substrate. Based on this I am going to run all 6 bulbs for 8 all hours for a few weeks and see if I notice any changes.
And I can see now where I could change my bulb combinations, and get to a lot of different PAR values if I wanted to. So could be some more experiments to come.
And why not, a full tank shot......
And didn't you say ambulia and poly sunset were weeds?
Just wait for this to go nuts!I had to remove it from the 80G it was out of control.
Yeah that's true. But there is a difference.And didn't you say ambulia and poly sunset were weeds?
I had to remove it from the 80G it was out of control.
The Polysperma is a weed AND it's branchy. So it just kind of spreads all over the place, very tough to control.
I actually really, really like the Ambulia. It grows straight up, and I only keep like 10 stems at a time and toss the rest. To me much easier to take care of.
Now once that Myrio takes off who knows in a month or so I might be singing another tune.
@Greggz your tank looks good with all them plants and big Phish!!!
Reminder: Don't forget about the free lease agreement on my Boes.
And that other guy @Immortal too, that doesn't post here often enough.
I have suggested the Seneye to many in the past.
Some fluffed it off since it was not an Apogee sensor.
The comparison to Apogee was right up there though.
Regarding PAR readings I used to check all over the tank, you know, different elevations, new toy!
Now I check right under pucks adjust the PAR and put it away.
I don't chase LED CRI's, just try to keep PUR over 70 and I'm happy.
Reminder: Don't forget about the free lease agreement on my Boes.
And that other guy @Immortal too, that doesn't post here often enough.
I have suggested the Seneye to many in the past.
Some fluffed it off since it was not an Apogee sensor.
The comparison to Apogee was right up there though.
Regarding PAR readings I used to check all over the tank, you know, different elevations, new toy!
Now I check right under pucks adjust the PAR and put it away.
I don't chase LED CRI's, just try to keep PUR over 70 and I'm happy.
Surprised the Ambulia did not get branchy?
I am trimming this eve and I only keep 6 stems of Ambulia in the tank.
In 4 weeks each stem has branched @ least once.
Leave it too long it will hop and skip across the substrate in runner form.
I am trimming this eve and I only keep 6 stems of Ambulia in the tank.
In 4 weeks each stem has branched @ least once.
Leave it too long it will hop and skip across the substrate in runner form.