Echninodorus Argentinesis, E.barthii and Crypt Usteriana not growing

[nijat11]

Hi all!
So I have a problem with E. Argentinesis, E.Barthii and Crypt Undatulas.
Those guys are not growing, however all other plants growing well and healthy.
E.Barthii located at backside of the tank and been there more than 3 months, still stays the same size. The same E.Argentinesis it located at right back corner and not growing, it gave some new leaves, but in general the height almost the same when I bough it.
Crypt undatulas been there more than 3 months, also no success at all.
Tank size 800 liters. Filtration 6500 h/l pump + Maxspect gyre xf 350 at 10% during the photoperiod.
CO2 Injection. Lights for 8 hours. Fertilizers EI method weekly. Water change 50-60% weekly.
I have attached images of plants and full tank.
Thank you in advance.

 

[JeffK]

These plants absorb their nutrients through their roots. They need clay to grow. CO2 and fertilizers don't do much for them.

 

[Nont]

These plants absorb their nutrients through their roots. They need clay to grow. CO2 and fertilizers don't do much for them.

I don’t think so, I personally don't believe that roots feeders exist. My sword plant thrives and grow extremely fast with water collumn dosing in a pure gravel substrate without a root tab and I’m pretty sure it has to do with light, From my experience, Echinodorus palifolius (often mislabeled as E. argentinensis) need a long day light duration about 10-13 hours and quite a medium to high light to thrive.

 

[_Maq_]

I personally don't believe that roots feeders exist.

I also have doubts about it. I rather think that plants take nutrients wherever they are.
On the other hand, I have to admit that some of the species generally considered "root feeders" don't grow well in my sand substrate and soft water / lean dosing conditions. Some of my Echinodorus and Cryptocoryne maintain pitiful appearance. Not all of them, though. I have not resolved this question, yet.

 

[Nont]

I also have doubts about it. I rather think that plants take nutrients wherever they are.
On the other hand, I have to admit that some of the species generally considered "root feeders" don't grow well in my sand substrate and soft water / lean dosing conditions. Some of my Echinodorus and Cryptocoryne maintain pitiful appearance. Not all of them, though. I have not resolved this question, yet.

Which Crypt do you have a problem with? I think this is because some Cryptocoryne habitat have very hardwater. Species like Cryptocoryne ciliata also live exclusively in mangrove swamp with brackish water as I have never seen them in freshwater ever. And C. cordata in the karst spring.

 

[_Maq_]

And what about C. nurii, C. albida, C. spiralis, C. crispatula?

 

[nijat11]

These plants absorb their nutrients through their roots. They need clay to grow. CO2 and fertilizers don't do much for them.

Every month Im adding root tabs (tropica, masterline, tetra), also they planted in ada amazonia v2 soil

 

[Nont]

And what about C. nurii, C. albida, C. spiralis, C. crispatula?

I’m not sure about C. nurii. Which C. crispatula variety are you talking about?

 

[_Maq_]

Which C. crispatula variety are you talking about?

flaccidifolia

 

[Nont]

flaccidifolia

Not sure about this one.

 

[nijat11]

More opinions/ideas please?

 

[Wookii]

And what about C. nurii, C. albida, C. spiralis, C. crispatula?

In my experience C. Nurii grows like a weed in hard water, and is much slower growing in soft water*.

C. albida (brown) does better for me in soft acidic water and struggles a little more in hard water* (it's very slow growing in both though, even with CO2.)

C. spiralis (green) grows like a weed in soft water* - to the point of being problematic. I've not tried it in hard water.

C. Crispatula I have in my current soft water set-up and it is growing very slowly*. I suspect it would favour hard water, as it does originate from a hardwater region.

* - in all cases this is with CO2 injection

 

[Conort2]

In my experience C. Nurii grows like a weed in hard water, and is much slower growing in soft water*.

I’ve found the same, it definitely does better in water that has some hardness to it.

I have spiralis red and tiger and they both seem to be growing well in the same water as the nurii.

These are all in low tech.

 

[G H Nelson]

More information would be helpful.
3. Tap water parameters.
6. Substrate.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

Those guys are not growing, however all other plants growing well and healthy.
E.Barthii located at backside of the tank and been there more than 3 months, still stays the same size. The same E.Argentinesis it located at right back corner and not growing, it gave some new leaves, but in general the height almost the same when I bough it.

I'd probably just wait, they look pretty healthy and may be growing new roots and rhizomes prior to a spurt in leaf growth.

I think you often get a "lag phase" in growth with rosette plants in a way you don't with a stem (or floater).

These plants absorb their nutrients through their roots. They need clay to grow.

Clays (and humus) may make nutrients more available <"via their ion exchange capacity">, and might also <"help to develop"> a more <"diverse microbial flora / fauna">.

I personally don't believe that roots feeders exist

. I rather think that plants take nutrients wherever they are.
On the other hand, I have to admit that some of the species generally considered "root feeders" don't grow well in my sand substrate and soft water / lean dosing conditions. Some of my Echinodorus and Cryptocoryne maintain pitiful appearance. Not all of them, though. I have not resolved this question, yet.

Nearly all plants can be grown hydroponically and/or foliar fed, all plants only take up nutrients as ions and I'm also not convinced that where those ions come from really matters.

Which Crypt do you have a problem with? I think this is because some Cryptocoryne habitat have very hardwater. Species like Cryptocoryne ciliata also live exclusively in mangrove swamp with brackish water as I have never seen them in freshwater ever. And C. cordata in the karst spring.

In my experience C. Nurii grows like a weed in hard water, and is much slower growing in soft water*.

C. albida (brown) does better for me in soft acidic water and struggles a little more in hard water* (it's very slow growing in both though, even with CO2.)

C. spiralis (green) grows like a weed in soft water* - to the point of being problematic. I've not tried it in hard water.

C. Crispatula I have in my current soft water set-up and it is growing very slowly*. I suspect it would favour hard water, as it does originate from a hardwater region.

I'm guessing that is the answer.

cheers Darrel

 

[nijat11]

More information would be helpful.
3. Tap water parameters.
6. Substrate.

3. It is hard water with pH around 7.8.
6. Substrate is ADA Amazoniav2+ root tabs.

In my experience C. Nurii grows like a weed in hard water, and is much slower growing in soft water*.

C. albida (brown) does better for me in soft acidic water and struggles a little more in hard water* (it's very slow growing in both though, even with CO2.)

C. spiralis (green) grows like a weed in soft water* - to the point of being problematic. I've not tried it in hard water.

C. Crispatula I have in my current soft water set-up and it is growing very slowly*. I suspect it would favour hard water, as it does originate from a hardwater region.

* - in all cases this is with CO2 injection

I have cristapula in hard water and grows extemly slow.

 

[G H Nelson]

Hi
They might be a bit cramped for space....the Amazon Sword looks very healthy.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

the Amazon Sword looks very healthy.

That would be the main thing for me, it is back to <"the plants can't lie"> argument. Because they look so healthy I'd be really surprised if they didn't eventually grow more quickly.

cheers Darrel

 

[nijat11]

Hi
They might be a bit cramped for space....the Amazon Sword looks very healthy.

Hi all,

That would be the main thing for me, it is back to <"the plants can't lie"> argument. Because they look so healthy I'd be really surprised if they didn't eventually grow more quickly.

cheers Darrel

Well I have waited 3 months. Can wait 3 more
Lets see what will happen.
My thought that maybe those plants have been shaded by other ones, I will add to the back Dennerle Trocal Led 160, which has more lumens, maybe that will help.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

Can wait 3 more

I'm a great believer in <"good things come to those who wait">, partially because I'm incredibly lazy and my default position is usually do nothing, rather than something.

My thought that maybe those plants have been shaded by other ones, I will add to the back Dennerle Trocal Led 160, which has more lumens, maybe that will help.

Could well be light, but looking at the photos nothing looks like it is suffering from lack of PAR.

cheers Darrel